It really got into the writing experience, as well as advancing it to fit this into digital technology, how to do it in color, things like that. The government support, both federal and state, were very extremely helpful.CRAWFORD: When you started working full-time at Kent Displays, what was your role at the company? Right now, I can watch my computer recording our conversation. He was very good at setting people at ease. Universities run on endowments, too. ]CRAWFORD: Right, because the university becomes kind of a competitor to the companies.DOANE: [Not necessarily a competitor because they're not in the same kind of business]. Being at a small grade school, I really was not exposed to that much science. One texture reflects a beautiful colored light. This of course did not happen. Paranormal Cirque III - Brandon, FL - April 27 - 30, 2023 Hosted By Paranormal Cirque III. One way to do that was not to take an exclusive license for the entire patent, but to narrow it down [and license it for some specific application]. Doane later helped create spin-off companies, such as Kent Displays, Inc. which was established in 1993. You mentioned Al Green was the CEO and Asad was the CTO.DOANE: At first, I had no involvement in the company at all because I was directing the LCI. DOANE: Yes, except that back then, it was even more difficult because I think this was prior to the time of the Bayh-Dole Act that gave universities more freedom in the patent business.CRAWFORD: Yes, 1980. Was the intention originally to produce products for the market?DOANE: We wanted to make and sell things, and we did. The University of Missouri was where I could go because I had support. They picked and chose those principal investigators in the THEMIS grant they wanted to fund. CRAWFORD: And this was in the early 2000s?DOANE: Yes. CRAWFORD: Could you talk a little bit more about the problems with licensing, that things were going other places, other parts of the country? [Laugh] I found out right away that nuclear magnetic resonance was a really good tool to study liquid crystalline materials at the molecular level.CRAWFORD: What was it that made you think to apply it to liquid crystals?DOANE: It's a phase of matter between solids and liquids, and I thought, "I'd like to see what they look like from the point of view of nuclear magnetic resonance." At that time, the liquid crystals were unstable and would decompose over time. But it was a hot new field, and I thought it was a better way to go. ALCOM was to combine science and technology where applications are important. As I recall, there was somebody from Xerox. A university cannot and should not try to compete with industries on problems of interest to industry. They benefit each other mutually. The discoveries with magnetic resonance were recognized, but only by academic researchers within the field. This is our third session. CRAWFORD: When were you working on the application?DOANE: Probably 1989 or so. To my knowledge, it was the first patent that Kent State ever had, at least following the Bayh-Dole Act. He worked with Robinson Memorial Hospital. I thought liquid crystals were really a great thing to focus on. Upvote 2 Downvote. But he did like the concept of working with liquid crystals in living systems, what their role was. Obviously, the science is important. Actually you could use and switch any color. Thank you! If you're going to have a graduate program, you have to have faculty who can bring in money, at least in sciences. It was sort of an informal, gradual retirement. It just worked out. I was standing there, and the professor happened to be in there, and he saw me. CRAWFORD: Just thinking about this historical moment, and you mentioned the shootings, which of course happened May 4, 1970, part of this whole moment with the protest against the Vietnam War. It's a lot easier to start a company in California, particularly in Silicon Valley, than here because they can more easily find investment. It was the first patent I ever wrote. He wasn't spending time at the Institute, the two weren't speaking to one another, and Glenn wanted to ask me if I would support him firing Fergason. At that time, I know MIT looked at it that way, so I tried to focus Kent State in that direction, too. But with the rise of online shopping and shifting consumer . CRAWFORD: I know you said there were tensions between Fergason and Brown. You described the Society for Information Displays as an industry group when you first met with them. I had such good support from industry and Kent State administration. This would make a black-and-white display, but it required a lot of power. ]CRAWFORD: I would imagine as a company, it's beneficial to have students, both undergraduates and graduates, who can come here and work that you know have experience in physics.DOANE: Particularly experience in liquid crystals. When he first came here, Fergason had a very nice program. My parents were very supportive of that and helped me with it. Its been over 25 years since I retired from the university and a lot has happened since then.] He got involved with a guy in the biology department to use liquid crystals to detect cancer. I think there have been quite a few spin-offs since. That's really a benefit for [Kent Displays]. Like Peter Palffy and John West, he originally came into the liquid crystal institute under the title senior research fellow, with no professorship as did Adriaan De Vries and several others. I appreciate you doing this. He was just getting into it.CRAWFORD: At this meeting, was he just mentioning this as [inaudible]DOANE: I don't recall all the details of that meeting but I am sure he must have because that's where it hit me that this seemed to be a neat field. Did you and Fergason remain friends?DOANE: Yes, I didn't have any problem with Jim. I was their marketing component before. It is what really gave me encouragement, a few years later, to go to the dean of arts and science to get a building on the research campus. But I guess I'm wondering if some of this work on applicationslike you said, Fergason just wanted to make a watch face. Crises aren't always that bad in the sense that they can move things along and force people to look at other ways. But Albert Green, at that time, had a big job on his hand in taking it to that level].CRAWFORD: What do you think he brought in particular? Together, we went to many US and foreign companies and found ourselves negotiating license agreements. I had an NIH grant on biological membranes (that are also liquid crystalline) as well. I'm not so sure that Glenn's attitude was really ever truly workable, except that it may have worked generally for universities back then. Saupe would've been the type of witness that worked against you.CRAWFORD: Right, hostile.DOANE: Right, a hostile witness. There's some discussion of applications, especially in the early years, the late 60s, focused on understanding perhaps the role of liquid crystals in living systems. Right away, I could see this might have some value in reflective display technology, so we wrote the patent really quickly, and that patent was followed by other patents related to that technology, all developed under ALCOM. I had so many publications, I didn't need to worry about publications for a tenure promotion or anything. I didn't view it as that at all. Another company that was very involved with liquid crystal display work was Tektronix in Oregon. I'm interviewing Dr. J. William Doane, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Emeritus Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute at Kent State University, as well as Co-Founder and Senior Advisor at Kent Displays. Anyway, the suit was settled out of court. It had to be very lightweight, and we couldn't do plastic that well back then. He earned his PhD from the University of Missouri in 1965. He got somebody, a private individual, to support building it off campus quite apart from the research campus where the science departments, physics, chemistry and biology were located . We haven't talked a lot about your approach to education and training students. the setup: grab your own pill bottle fill it with water and maybe a tinge of vodka to get that alcohol smell. One day, he walked into my office and said, "Look at what this crazy stuff does. We decided to focus on the use of displays in signs. Two miles from the noonday creek trail!Directions: Google, Waze. CRAWFORD: Well, thank you very much for saying that. Learn why in our, 442-H New York Standard Operating Procedures. [Laugh] [Polymer dispersions, PDLCs, were becoming well known all over the world, particularly as a new technology for switchable windows.] 6 hours from St. Louis, MO. I'm an Associate Professor and Historian of Science in the Department of History at Kent State University. Spinning off a company is what I eventually wound up doing myself, which is to use technology to spin off companies instead of trying to make money for the university by licensing the technology to various places around the world. It's a very low-powered device.DOANE: The Boogie Board takes no power to write on it. I think that was probably our first market for that thing. My experience with this is that universities typically don't want to get too involved in licensing and business relationships. It really didn't have a lot to do with my nuclear spin pumping and my double resonance experiments [other than we were both working with solid crystals]. Dr. Doane, thanks for agreeing to speak to me again.J. [Laugh] But there's no manufacturing in the U.S. that I'm aware of. The things people tend to look down upon or push aside usually contain the opportunities. Glenn called me into his office and wanted to talk about Jim Fergason. Even at that time, there was some discussion of, "What really are these things? They're up in a little town, Kent, Ohio." That was my biggest trouble, finding investment.CRAWFORD: Was it difficult to find venture capitalists here? He decided to patent it on his own which turned out to be a serious problem for the University.As I recall, there was an attorney up in Cleveland to help him in this effort. What were your hopes and goals for the company when you founded it?DOANE: There were several reasons I wanted to start the company, one of them being that at that time, I was directing the ALCOM Center at Kent State, and we were developing new technology. There were a number of things we could make on it. They tried to invalidate our patent, claiming our patent was invalid. Of course, after they could do that, they began to think about how to make pixels. It turns out that writing tablets actually use both PDLCs and cholesteric liquid crystals in which polymers are dispersed in the cholesteric liquid crystal. From what I understand, today, it's still a lot like that. Not long after he came aboard, he promoted Asad Khan to be his CTO. I don't think the company lost any personnel. When Jim's company began to fail, Hoffmann-La Roche wanted to buy the patent from him. There were three other universities involved. That was my focus at that time. I'm here interviewing Dr. J. William Doane, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Emeritus Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute at Kent State University, and Co-Founder and Senior Advisor at Kent Displays in Kent, Ohio. That is to say, you can write on it with almost anything, even your fingernail, but usually with a pointed stylus. She came out on a train around 1915, I think. In 2008, Simon Property Group pumped millions into a major interior renovation for Town Center at Cobb as a way to boost sales. Nobody knew who he was because he was never there. We needed to be working with another university on polymers. There are a lot of moving parts. CRAWFORD: Would you say that's true for yourself, that you've learned better when you can see the uses?DOANE: Oh, yeah. By that time, Jim had formed another company up in Cleveland. The Town Center at Cobb shopping mall in Kennesaw will stay closed for at least 11 days, its parent company announced. CRAWFORD: How did you find her?DOANE: I knew her because she was in the physics department, and I saw what a good administrator she was there. Please switch to a supported browser or download one of our Mobile Apps. I retired in '96.CRAWFORD: KDI is Kent Displays, Incorporated.DOANE: Yes. Instead, research is directed toward finding scientific knowledge. You have to be able to see how you fit in and how you can contribute. Somehow, I just thought it was important for our program to do that. I just did less and less. In order to get color, you have to filter the light through red, green, and blue filters, and those filters absorb a lot of light. Then, around the world, in India and Russia, there were groups fiddling around with these things, but not much was known about it. So you can see green writing on a black background. Nuno was wonderful. Nely F May 8, 2012. [Laugh] I wasnt aware of it and glad you brought this to my attention.CRAWFORD: That seems a fair characterization? Doane discusses his life and especially his career as the Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute. [Laugh] But I was able to do it. I didn't know enough about it to get involved. 3350 George Busbee Pkwy NW Kennesaw, GA 30144 1-3 Beds 1-2 Baths 750-1,540 sqft $1,570 - $2,321/mo Local Information Map Schools Shop & Eat Google -- mins to Commute Destination Description (770) 766-7382 From the moment you walk through the front door you'll feel the comfort and security that makes our residents happy to call us home. Looking back on it, I'm not sure why he hired Fergason in the first place. The display world was just sort of developing industrially apart from the academic world somehow.CRAWFORD: Could it be because the academic world was more focused on basic research?DOANE: I think so. It was a big effort for that time.CRAWFORD: Did that include what Akron and Case were doing?DOANE: These were our expenditures in Kent. I just wanted to get it involved in the graduate programs. Another senator saw this and said, "That shouldn't be. - City . The building didn't come until a while after THEMIS. In the early 80s, there was a lot of work going on not only at Kent, but all over the world. We picked the simplest display we could possibly make, and that was the writing tablet, the Boogie Board. They wanted to show that there was economic benefit to all of this. I thought it was nice to have Fergason doing these things. [It developed into a huge research effort involving the institute and the physics and chemistry departments; however after several years, I began to see the real problem of the institute being located apart from the research campus.] I did have a high school teacher, [Harley Rutledge], who was right out of college and had a degree in physics. But it could've been that attitude of distancing research from industry caused the Institute to be in such a bad spot when I took over. I just told the dean I didn't know what I could do. His name was Jim Fergason. They gave it to me to put in the Institute so we could make displays in the Institute. He retired from Kent State University and the LCI in 1996. The written image stays there forever without any power. It was focused on basic research, and it was a lot of money. What was it about their work or them as individuals that attracted you to Kent?DOANE: They were dealing with a nuclear property that comes up in the jargon of nuclear magnetic resonance, spin-lattice relaxation. That had some issues, too. We can pick up tomorrow. He thought it was a fascinating field. Or were you also learning more generally about the properties of matter and molecules?DOANE: The physical and chemical properties of liquid crystals, their molecular makeup, their unusual properties and how they fit as states of matter between solids and liquids. Joel Domino, was the company's first employee. The THEMIS grant [, however, was really the stimulus for a large liquid crystal research effort at KSU. [Laugh] They wanted to fill a position at Kent, and I was looking at other schools, too. CRAWFORD: And this is the ALCOM Center. But what a distraction that was, taking considerable time away from company development.That's the thing about patents: a patent doesn't help you much unless you protect it. That was even before the shootings. It was called JTech. That wasn't in my interest at all. However, from another point of view, it never hurts to have a crisis because it causes people to think other ways. But I'm still on the board of the company, and they kindly give me a little office here, let me come in and talk to people. Not only displays, we had work going on with steering laser beams, night vision, and other optical devices. In the summer of '67, my wife and I took our summer vacation, and we went back home to visit our parents. It was incredible. DOANE: Campus is a great place to walk and ride bikes, but I don't like to go there when it is shut down because it's so depressing to me.CRAWFORD: And that's a really good example of what you were saying about how the pandemic has impacted social interactions. But anyway, Jim ran into materials issues. [audio cuts out] [However, that was just a small part of the overall program as at least half of the faculty in the physics department and many in the chemistry department became heavily involved in liquid crystal research involving theory and numerous different experiment techniques. The very first conference Glenn formed, I pulled out the booklet for that to see who had attended, and there were a few people from industry. Prices and availability are subject to change without notice. Talking to him was the first time I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals. If you have a joint development, you determine who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing. DOANE: It was very good for the LCI [and also for Kent State in other ways]. I have lost track of where they're sold now but I think mostly overseas. That's what I did. The company has been improving on this over the years. There was a lot of work going on in Germany. This put them in an awkward position. But primarily USC and Kent State carried the ball in this program.. We met a lot and really worked closely together. Today, I'm interviewing Dr. J. William Doane, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Emeritus Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute at Kent State University, as well as Co-Founder and Senior Advisor at Kent Displays. But, luckily I had these polymer dispersions that I discovered with my friend Pino and they had shown promise for switchable windows. But I don't think he would've hired Saupe if he wanted to only focus on that. Everybody in the US lost on this issue. Close to schools (KSU), shopping, mall (Town Center at Cobb), & interstates. We had no such thing here [but we needed to start].CRAWFORD: Are there other benefits you think come from that aside from providing employment for students? I wanted to create KDI to set an example so others would do it, and it worked. I wanted to get the Institute to an area where we could fund it, and the only way I could see funding at that time was to get some applied activity going on. I think once the University got into it, they thought it was a nice way to go, too. I've been retired from the university for 26 years, so I really don't know what goes on in universities now.CRAWFORD: But at the time, you were thinking in terms of economic development for the region?DOANE: Yes. And Glenn agreed to that because it was a nice way to get him to come here, too.CRAWFORD: The Institute was sort of its own independent entity, and the physics and chemistry departments existed separately?DOANE: Yeah. The physics behind it isnt so simple, but it's a simple device and useful device as a paper replacement that can be reused. I thought it was sort of like a double resonance. It seemed to be the best thing to do, and my wife, Shirley, agreed. Today's date is Monday, August 16th, 2021. People in California are able to start a company a lot more easily. KSU faculty and administration were beginning to realize that if it could not generate funding to support the group as a whole, the university would abandon it.] Because that was something they could really do, what's called a seven-segment display. One thing that hurt the company a lot in the early years, a company down in Texas started making cholesteric displays infringing on our technology. After he got his degree, he worked in industry, and it could've been that he just didn't understand academia. It was a lot of work. A guy in England named George Gray, who Glenn had worked with. I thought it should be patented. Around '82 or '83, he decided to retire. CRAWFORD: They've basically shut campus down. [Laugh] Shirley and I went back to Columbia, she got a job to help support us, and I had a teaching assistantship. But they did not, just a small amount of royalties. Kent State wasn't widely known for anything at that time. Is it based on the pressure?DOANE: The Boogie Board makes use of a type of liquid crystal that's extremely unique. I wanted to start off just asking some background questions. Industry on the other hand values applied research that they often prefer to keep secret. CRAWFORD: In 2007, you received another award, the Slottow-Owaki Prize from the Society of Information Displays, and this is an award for your contribution to the education and training of students and professionals in the field of information display. Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin : Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin Localisation : Country France, Region Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, Department Isre. In the early 80s, Glenn became very ill with Parkinson's. I didn't mind it not being in Kent necessarily, but I did want some of it to stay in Kent. Were they asking the LCI to solve problems for them?DOANE: [They primarily wanted just to be current with the technology as it applied to their companys interest. I thought, "Boy, what a neat experiment." We will schedule showings by appointment only until the tenant has moved. In the process of all of that, was a person monitoring the contract who became very interested in our company. He looked like a real good guy to work with. The polymer dispersions could be used in night vision, reflective color displays and various kinds of things. My experience is that all the good research comes out of really young guys. If I had something like you proposed the other day, where the institute was off campus, apart from the University, it would've been something I might've been able to deal with a lot more easily. CRAWFORD: ALCOM is funded in 1991, and five years later, you retire. We didn't have that technology. Charming home in a well kept quiet community. We had all the patents on this, so I flew down to Texas to talk to this company and tell them, "Look, we have the patents on this, and we're going to protect them. However, at that time, he was not very well. Applications did not come until people started working with them. I was determined to do that, and at first, I tried to do it at a lower cost [to better attract investment]. When we discovered how to do that we realized we could make a nice electronically addressed display out of it. CRAWFORD: But students still get their PhD in chemical physics?DOANE: As I understand it, they do [but it may now be broadened to material sciences. I think that was the difficulty. At that time, both of our work was focused on solid crystalline materials. 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