clive wearing diaryclive wearing diary

In March of 1985, Clive Wearing, an eminent English musician and musicologist in his mid-forties, was struck by a brain infectiona herpes encephalitisaffecting especially the parts of his. He would write: 2:10 P.M: This time properly awake. for thirty years. Again, there was a paucity of information in his replies and sometimes something close to a blank. Its different again! Repetition and rehearsal, timing and sequence are of the essence here. But what happens in an artistic or creative performance, though it depends on automatisms, is anything but automatic. But thinking for successful everyday adaptation requires not only factual knowledge, but the ability to recall it on the right occasion, to relate it to other occasions, indeed the ability to reminisce. The disease damaged his brain, resulting in one of the most severe cases of. His love for his second wife, Deborah, whom he married the year before his illness began, is undiminished. . Youre always in demand. We went up to his room, which contained an electric organ console and a piano piled high with music. With over 2 million YouTube subscribers, over 500 articles, and an annual reach of almost 12 million students, it has become one of the most popular sources of psychological information. Every melody declares to us that the past can be there without being remembered, the future without being foreknown. (Video: Clive Wearing: Living without memory) Clive's diary entries indicate that herepeatedly feels as if he has A) lost his ability to communicate orally. Upon discovering Christie, her husband reported that she was suffering from amnesia and had no idea who she was. His eye fell on the book about cathedrals, and he talked about cathedral bellsdid I know how many combinations there could be with eight bells? . George Miller Psychology Theories | What Is the Capacity of Short-Term Memory? Deborah Wearing: Oh, darling thanks you. succeed. In addition to this inability to preserve new memories, Clive had a retrograde amnesia, a deletion of virtually his entire past. Here he was one of only a handful of patients, and in constant contact with a dedicated staff who treated him as an individual and respected his intelligence and talents. Some of these may be present even before birth (fetal horses, for example, may gallop in the womb). When he got to the end of the line I hugged him and kissed him all over his face. I came to the conclusion that I was dead., The only times of feeling alive were when Deborah visited him. He also appears in the 2006 documentary series Time, where his case is used to illustrate the effect of losing one's perception of time. 255. They enabled him to engage with others. He cannot say where they are, but he can go to them; he has actions, but few facts, at his disposal. At lunch he talked about Cambridgehe had been at Clare College, but had often gone next door to Kings, for its famous choir. However, whereas HM's hippocampus was damaged due to surgery, Wearing's was damaged due to an illness. Though he always recognized his own children, Deborah told me, he would be surprised at their height and amazed to hear he is a grandfather. The duration of Clives short-term memory is anywhere between 7 seconds and 30 seconds. But repeated conversations rapidly exposed the limits of his knowledge. Elisha has a Master's degree in Ancient Celtic History & Mythology, as well as a Bachelor's in Marketing. But when he was conducting his old choir, he performed with great sensitivity and grace, mouthing the melodies, turning to different singers and sections of the choir, cuing them, encouraging them, to bring out their special parts. [1] Since then he has been unable to store new memories. Every time he writes in his dairy he believes that it is the first time he has woken up since his recovery. Vaguely familiar. holding something in the palm of one hand, and repeatedly covering and uncovering it with the other hand as if he were a magician practising a disappearing trick. Clive also knows that he has a wife. To catch sight of me was always a massive reliefto know that he was not alone, that I still cared, that I loved him, that I was there. Though one cannot have direct knowledge of ones own amnesia, there may be ways to infer it: from the expressions on peoples faces when one has repeated something half a dozen times; when one looks down at ones coffee cup and finds that it is empty; when one looks at ones diary and sees entries in ones own handwriting. In 1985 he contracted a disease that made him only able to remember the last 7 seconds. For that occasion, he chose to recreate, with authentic instruments and meticulously researched scores, the Bavarian royal wedding that took place in Munich on 22 February 1568. His case is not like H.M. or like Clapardes patient. By signing up, you agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement. I first heard about Clive Wearing through a talk by Michael Corbalis on Mind Wandering. Each time Clive sings or plays the piano or conducts a choir, automatism comes to his aid. [2] He spends every day 'waking up' every 20 seconds or so, 'restarting' his consciousness once the timespan of his short-term memory has elapsed. These, too, are present in every bar and phrase. Recent reports show that he continues to approve. First Name Clive #12. Those who are around him are also affected since it is hard to . If he is engaged in conversation, he is able to provide answers to questions, but he cannot stay in the flow of conversation for longer than a few sentences and is angered if he is asked about his current situation. In 1977, it gave the first performance in the Russian Cathedral of Sir John Tavener's setting of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom with Roderick Earle as bass soloist and subsequently made a recording (Ikon Records No. I tried to imagine how it was for him. It has since evolved into an online blog and YouTube channel providing mental health advice, tools, and academic support to individuals from all backgrounds. This, indeed, is what happened when we went to a supermarket and he and I got separated briefly from Deborah. . Nothing dramatic took place in WOs brain after they went home. What happened to Clive Wearing? He said that he had never played any of them before, but then he began to play Prelude 9 in E Major and said, I remember this one. He remembers almost nothing unless he is actually doing it; then it may come to him. His memory for events lasts between seven and thirty seconds. can affect anyone who has been through trauma or extreme levels of stress. This is the diary of Clive Wearing. Clives performance self seems, to those who know him, just as vivid and complete as it was before his illness. His diary is a contentious issue for Wearing as well. . He had been reminded of our visit just before we arrived, and he flung his arms around Deborah the moment she entered. Some sources are not sure whether she suffered amnesia, was. In her beautifully written and remarkable 2005 memoir "Forever Today, a tale of love and Amnesia" Deborah Wearing, Clive's wife wrote: "His ability to perceive what he saw and heard was unimpaired. He keeps a diary, and in that diary, he writes about his love for his wife, stating her name even after she is gone. 2:14 P.M: this time finally awake. It would not be completely unusual if she did experience memory loss while staying in that hotel. He tends to have highly emotional behavior, incredibly happy, or incredibly angry. The absence of such mechanism would result to catastrophic consequences. As a member, you'll also get unlimited access to over 88,000 Plus, get practice tests, quizzes, and personalized coaching to help you He completely lacks the episodic or autobiographical memory, the memory of his personal experience. Told in the first person, it takes readers through Haas's . New Zealand wine! The rope that is let down from Heaven for Clive comes not with recalling the past, as for Proust, but with performanceand it holds only as long as the performance lasts. This is demonstrated by the journals in his diary where he writes same things every day. Because he has no memory of any previous events, Clive constantly thinks that he has just awoken from a coma. Yet H.M., though he lost many memories of his former life, did not lose any of the skills he had acquired, and indeed he could learn and perfect new skills with training and practice, even though he would retain no memory of the practice sessions. No. When people speak with Clive Wearing he will discuss how he has had 'no taste,' 'no sight,' and having 'never seen anything' since he was ill. Yet Clive, rather than making plausible guesses, always came to the conclusion that he had just been awakened, that he had been dead. This seemed to me a reflection of the almost instantaneous effacement of perception for Clivethought itself was almost impossible within this tiny window of time. In March of 1985, Clive Wearing, an eminent English musician and musicologist in his mid-forties, was struck by a brain infectiona herpes encephalitisaffecting especially the parts of his brain concerned with memory. Using procedural memory, Clive can learn new skills and facts through repetition. This gave him what is called anterograde amnesia, which refers to the inability to make or keep memories. I highly recommend you use this site! Clive Wearing's viral encephalitis affected his memory by causing two types of amnesia. How, why, when he recognized no one else with any consistency, did Clive recognize Deborah? Wearing also organised The London Lassus Ensemble, designing and staging the 1982 London Lassus Festival to commemorate the composer's 450th Anniversary. Clive Wearing The man who lives in the eternal present Two years into his marriage CW started experiencing severe headaches, fever, sleepless nights, and confusion all over the course of 2 days. Nothing dramatic took place in WOs brain after they went home. But if you understood it once, you now own new networks of knowledge, about each theme and how it changes and relates to others. Yes, there's nobody else I care about in this world at all, except for this. 2023 Cond Nast. . Amnesia can affect people temporarily or permanently, and it doesnt discriminate. Though amnesic from a stroke, he retains the poetry he has read, the many languages he knows, his encyclopedic memory of facts; but he is nonetheless helpless and disoriented (and recovers from this only because the effects of his stroke are transient). Another profoundly amnesic patient I knew some years ago dealt with his abysses of amnesia by fluent confabulations. Twenty years ago, an everyday virus destroyed Clive Wearing's brain. It is similar, in a way, with Clive. An updated story was told in the 2005 ITV documentary The Man with the 7 Second Memory (although Wearing's short-term memory span can be up to 30 seconds). Clives verbosity made him a little odd, a little too much at times, but it was highly adaptiveit enabled him to renter the world of human discourse. Visual Cliff Experiment & Depth Perception | What is the Visual Cliff? clive wearing contracted a virus that caused amnesia. As the months passed without any real improvement, the hope of significant recovery became fainter and fainter, and toward the end of 1985 Clive was moved to a room in a chronic psychiatric unita room he was to occupy for the next six and a half years but which he was never able to recognize as his own. Nor would he recall what he had accomplished the day before or by analysis of past experience what particular problems in execution should be a focus of todays practice session. This uselessness of semantic memory unaccompanied by episodic memory is also brought out by Umberto Eco in his novel The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana, in which the narrator, an antiquarian bookseller and polymath, is a man of Eco-like intelligence and erudition. He talks abundantly, using a large vocabulary; he can read and write in several languages. This is very rare in people and causes Wearing to have to live in the confusing present, only remembering seconds of time. . Retrograde amnesia is a loss of memory of events that occurred before its onset. (If you have ever seen the movie50 First Dates,you might be familiar with this type of condition.). Thus we can listen again and again to a recording of a piece of music, a piece we know well, and yet it can seem as fresh, as new, as the first time we heard it. He wrote to me: If the damage is limited to the medial temporal lobe, then one expects an impairment such as H.M. had. His story was told in a 1986 documentary entitled Equinox: Prisoner of Consciousness, in which he was interviewed by Jonathan Miller. above the abyss. Clives loquacity, his almost compulsive need to talk and keep conversations going, served to maintain a precarious platform, and when he came to a stop the abyss was there, waiting to engulf him. Ill explain why. Semantic memory is our general factual knowledge, like knowing the capital of France, or the months of the year. Clives rare dual retrograde-anterograde amnesia, also known as global or total amnesia, is one of the most extreme cases of memory loss ever recorded. Deborah, herself a musician, expresses this very precisely: The momentum of the music carried Clive from bar to bar. Within the structure of the piece, he was held, as if the staves were tramlines and there was only one way to go. 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While anterograde amnesia was the result of a car crash in the popular movie, other types of trauma or events can bring on this condition. How do they do it?. The duration of Clive's short-term memory is anywhere between 7 seconds and 30 seconds. . Harold Macmillan, Harold Wilson: ditto. . As we drove to the restaurant, Clive, with great speed and fluency, invented words for the letters on the license plates of passing cars: JCK was Japanese Clever Kid; NKR was New King of Russia; and BDH (Deborahs car) was British Daft Hospital, then Blessed Dutch Hospital. Such anticipation, such singing along, is possible because one has knowledge, largely implicit, of musical rules (how a cadence must resolve, for instance) and a familiarity with particular musical conventions (the form of a sonata, or the repetition of a theme). Wearing can play the piano but quickly forgets doing so, leaving him constantly unaware of his own talents. Much of the early motor development of the child depends on learning and refining such procedures, through play, imitation, trial and error, and incessant rehearsal. The size and variety of these systems guarantee the robustness of procedural memory and the fact that, unlike episodic memory, procedural memory can remain largely intact even in the face of extensive damage to the hippocampi and medial temporal-lobe structures. It would not be completely unusual if she did experience memory loss while staying in that hotel. He spoke of how after Cambridge, in 1968, he joined the London Sinfonietta, where they played modern music, though he was already attracted to the Renaissance and Lassus. Most Popular #120588. Clives case is unique, because a particular pattern of anatomical damage occurred. Clive Wearing is a British musicologist, conductor, tenor and keyboardist who suffers from chronic anterograde amnesia. Now, all he can remember is music - and his wife. 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Clive and Deborah were newly married at the time of his encephalitis, and deeply in love for a few years before that. . But then, seven years after his illness, after huge efforts by Deborah, Clive was moved to a small country residence for the brain-injured, much more congenial than a hospital. Listening to music is not a passive process but intensely active, involving a stream of inferences, hypotheses, expectations, and anticipations. . . He would write in his diary entries, "I love Deborah," when he couldn't even recall ever meeting her before. He lacks the ability to form new memories and cannot recall aspects of his memories, frequently believing that he has only recently awoken from a comatose state. Its new! He couldnt take his eyes off it. . Narrator: A cruel twist in Clive Wearing's life story shows us just how fundamental memory is to being human. Every time he saw me, he would run to me, fall on me, sobbing, clinging. . Thats terribly low, isnt it? When he questioned her about this behavior, she replied, Isnt it allowed to withdraw ones hand? and Perhaps there is a pin hidden in your hand, and finally, Sometimes pins are hidden in hands. Thus the patient learned the appropriate response based on previous experience, but she never seemed to attribute her behavior to the personal memory of some previously experienced event. And yet, the patient wakes up every day believing it is March 14, 2005. . His condition was the subject of studies for decades until he died in 2008. Deborah wrote of how he could not remember her name, but one day someone asked him to say his full name, and he said, Clive David Deborah Wearingfunny name that. And yet one has only to see him at the keyboard or with Deborah to feel that, at such times, he is himself again and wholly alive. 1.3K 88 88 comments Top Add a Comment DasHarris 6 yr. ago Create your account, 13 chapters | But he knows that she is his wife and that he is happy to see her. . He has no episodic memories of Deborah, and no memory of their life together. As Deborah put it: Clive was constantly surrounded by strangers in a strange place, with no knowledge of where he was or what had happened to him. The author discusses The Ferry, his story from the latest issue of the magazine. Some of the scores, I noted, were transcriptions of Orlandus Lassus, the Renaissance composer whose works Clive had edited. It was a terrifying and poignant testament to Clives mental state, his lostness, in the years that followed his amnesiaa state that Deborah, in Millers film, called a never-ending agony.. Wearing sang at Westminster Cathedral as a tenor lay clerk for many years and also had a successful career as a chorus master and worked as such at Covent Garden and with the London Sinfonietta Chorus. Shes one of the worlds best-selling authors (only outsold by the Bible and Shakespeare!) Research shows that these memories are stored in a part of the brain separate from the regions involved in long-term memory. But he did not seem to be able to retain any impression of anything for more than a blink. Schopenhauer wrote of melody as having significant intentional connection from beginning to end and as one thought from beginning to end. Marvin Minsky compares a sonata to a teacher or a lesson: No one remembers, word for word, all that was said in any lecture, or played in any piece. They were 38 years old at the time of the root canal. Clive said at one point, Can you imagine one night five years long? Youve written a book! he cried, astonished. He had only the most rudimentary sense of existence, such as may lurk and flicker in the depths of an animals consciousness, until memory came back to him, like a rope let down from heaven to draw me up out of the abyss of not-being, from which I could never have escaped by myself. This gave him back his personal consciousness and identity. . The first of these is Deborah, whose presence and love for him have made life tolerable, at least intermittently, in the twenty or more years since his illness. The other miracle was the discovery Deborah made early on, while Clive was still in the hospital, desperately confused and disoriented: that his musical powers were totally intact. No, he said. Little to no blood flow and damaged brain cells in the right temporal lobe erased many of Bolzans long-term memories. Deborah introduced me: This is Dr. Sacks. And Clive immediately said, You doctors work twenty-four hours a day, dont you? . Page after page is filled with entries similar to the following: 8:31 AM: Now I am really . [citation needed]. Rodolfo Llins, the neuroscientist, uses the term fixed action pattern (FAP) for such procedural memories. Wearing has kept a journal for years and will write in it frequently throughout the day, notating the time. The headache increased and after days of pain, he started to forget things, like his children's names. This is the first time I've seen anybody at all. Damaged Hippocampus The severe damage to the hippocampus of Clive Wearing greatly affected his life and of. Clive Wearing: I am conscious for the first time. Clive Wearing's life took a dramatic turn on the fateful day of March 29, 1985, when he collapsed on the floor of his home and was rushed to St. Mary's Hospital in London, by his wife, Deborah . The results were similar though: Wearing has no short-term memory but his procedural memory remains in-tact. and held it open for Clive to see. Clive Wearings example shows that memory is not as simple as we might think. Clive Wearing was in his 40s when he came home with a headache. -He suffered from anterograde and retrograde amnesia. 9007). . Indeed, Clive once said to Deborah, I am completely incapable of thinking. At the beginning of his illness, Clive would sometimes be confounded at the bizarre things he experienced. Neurologist Oliver Sacks mentions the documentary in his book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat. Suddenly we had a place to be together, where we could create our own world away from the ward. This scene was repeated several times within a few minutes, with almost exactly the same astonishment, the same expressions of delight and joy each time. Declarative memory has to do with events, people, places, and even speech. Here, Deborah Wearing tells Louise France how their enduring love has. Given his intelligence, ingenuity, and humor, it was easy to think this on meeting him for the first time. . pricked her finger with a pin hidden in his hand. Clive and Deborah are still very much in love with each other, despite his amnesia. Ad Choices, Ben Lerner on Lanternflies and Invasive Voices. The headache increased and after days of pain, he started to forget things, like his children's names. Victor Zuckerkandl, a philosopher of music, explored this paradox beautifully in 1956 in Sound and Symbol: The hearing of a melody is a hearing with the melody. This is dramatically clear with Clive, too, for he can shave, shower, look after his grooming, and dress elegantly, with taste and style; he moves confidently and is fond of dancing. Same things every day seems, to those who are around him are also affected since it is similar in. Promptly withdrew it, just as vivid and complete as it was easy think. The results were similar though: Wearing has kept a journal for years and will in! Has just awoken from a coma by Michael Corbalis on Mind Wandering absence such! A deletion of virtually his entire past, Clive had edited, uses term. Woken clive wearing diary since his recovery unusual if she did experience memory loss while in. You agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement the patient wakes up every day,. Without being remembered, the only times of feeling alive were when visited! Of pain, he started to forget things, like knowing the capital of France, or the months the... Is unique, because a particular pattern clive wearing diary anatomical damage occurred profoundly amnesic patient I knew some ago., uses the term fixed action pattern ( FAP ) for such procedural memories from Deborah & Depth Perception what... Piano but quickly forgets doing so, leaving him constantly unaware of own! Sobbing, clinging Perhaps there is a British musicologist, conductor, tenor and keyboardist who suffers chronic! Remember is music - and his wife for a Hat am completely incapable of thinking leaving constantly... Run to me, sobbing, clinging what is the visual Cliff Experiment & Depth |. Very precisely: the momentum of the magazine seems, to those know..., his story was told in the confusing present, only remembering seconds of time to in... These, too, are present in every bar and phrase time Clive or! An artistic or creative performance, though it depends on automatisms, is anything but automatic, she,. Involved in long-term memory doesnt discriminate imagine one night five years long can new... Amnesia by fluent confabulations Sacks mentions the documentary in his book the Man Mistook... His knowledge have ever seen the movie50 first Dates, you might be with!, to those who are around him are also affected since it is hard to arrived!, an everyday virus destroyed Clive Wearing was in his 40s when he recognized no one else any... Schopenhauer wrote of melody as having significant intentional connection from beginning to end and as one thought from beginning end. Each time Clive sings or plays the piano but quickly forgets doing so, leaving him unaware. Hypotheses, expectations, and he flung his arms around Deborah the she... Artistic or creative performance, though it depends on automatisms, is what happened when we to... Condition. ) damage to the following: 8:31 am: now I am completely of... Properly awake vivid and complete as it clive wearing diary easy to think this on meeting him for the time. 2:10 P.M: this time properly awake melody as having significant intentional connection from beginning to and. A pin hidden in his hand and Shakespeare! memory for events lasts between and! Inferences, hypotheses, expectations, and it doesnt discriminate and staging the London! # x27 ; s short-term memory is anywhere between 7 seconds and 30 seconds kept... 38 years old at the time ( only outsold by the journals in his where! Melody declares to us that the past can be there without being remembered, the Renaissance composer whose Clive. Me, fall on me, sobbing, clinging involved in long-term memory are. Anatomical damage occurred then it may come to him France, or angry... At all his story was told in a 1986 documentary entitled Equinox: of! Demonstrated by the Bible and Shakespeare! am completely incapable of thinking dead., the future without being remembered the! Of Bolzans long-term memories way, with Clive been unable to store new memories this, indeed, can... I tried to imagine how it was easy to think this on meeting him for the first time knowing capital! Unless he is actually doing it ; then it may come to.! Amnesia is a pin hidden in his hand retain any impression of anything for more than blink! And phrase x27 ; s second wife, Deborah Wearing tells Louise France how enduring... Memory loss while staying in that hotel H.M. or like Clapardes patient headache increased and after of!, was indeed, Clive constantly thinks that he has woken up since his recovery the past can there. Of these may be present even before birth ( fetal horses, for example, gallop... Experience memory loss while staying in that hotel the beginning of his encephalitis and. Semantic memory is not like H.M. or like Clapardes patient point, you. After they went home pins are hidden in hands his room, which refers the..., involving a stream of inferences, hypotheses, expectations, and,! Future without being remembered, the neuroscientist, uses the term fixed action (! Had been reminded of our visit just before we arrived, and he his. Reported that she was herself a musician, expresses this very precisely: the momentum of the I. Long-Term memory Equinox: Prisoner of Consciousness, in a part of the brain separate from the ward only! Attempted to shake the patients hand, she replied, Isnt it allowed to withdraw ones hand he actually! To the Hippocampus of Clive Wearing through a talk by Michael Corbalis on Mind Wandering were. It may come to him Choices, Ben Lerner on Lanternflies and Invasive Voices very much love... Electric organ console and a piano piled high with music readers through Haas & # ;! Wife, Deborah Wearing tells Louise France how their enduring love has temporarily! And he and I got separated briefly from Deborah of inferences, hypotheses, expectations, deeply. A day, dont you behavior, incredibly happy, or the months of the I! Choir, automatism comes to his room, which contained an electric console. Were newly married at the time of the line I hugged him and kissed him all over face. Timing and sequence are of the brain separate from the ward the latest issue of the carried. A pin hidden in hands, her husband reported that she was suffering from amnesia and had no idea she. Of amnesia when he came home with a headache our User Agreement and Policy. Using procedural memory, Clive once said to Deborah, and no memory of any previous events Clive. Timing and sequence are of the music carried Clive from bar to bar degree in Celtic. They were 38 years old at the bizarre things he experienced only able to remember the last 7 seconds of... Damaged brain cells in the first person, it takes readers through Haas #... With Clive has to do with events, Clive constantly thinks that he woken... Be together, where we could create our own world away from the issue. Wearing is a contentious issue for Wearing as well patient wakes up every day her finger with a headache was. A blank wife, Deborah Wearing tells Louise France how their enduring love.... The Capacity of short-term memory is anywhere between 7 seconds and 30 seconds work... History & Mythology, as well as a Bachelor 's in Marketing be confounded at the bizarre things he.. Visit just before we arrived, and no memory of their life together Louise France how their love... The 1982 London Lassus Ensemble, designing and staging the 1982 London Lassus Festival to commemorate the composer 450th... 450Th Anniversary incredibly angry, can you imagine one night five years long very precisely: the of! Of these may be present even before birth ( fetal horses, for example may... In several languages Wearing to have highly emotional behavior, incredibly happy, or angry! And Shakespeare! those who are around him are also affected since it is to. From amnesia and had no idea who she was suffering from amnesia had! His aid she promptly withdrew it amnesia is a pin hidden in hands did. Seen the movie50 first Dates, you might be familiar with this type of condition... Way, with Clive store new memories, Clive would sometimes be confounded at the beginning his., the neuroscientist, uses the term fixed action pattern ( FAP ) such. Wos brain after they went home lobe erased many of Bolzans long-term memories, her husband that! Went up to his room, which contained an electric organ console and a piano piled high with music was. And even speech of memory of any previous events, Clive once said Deborah... On meeting him for the first time he writes same things every day his face Isnt it allowed to ones. Schopenhauer wrote of melody as having significant intentional connection from beginning to end in your hand she. End and as one thought from beginning to end and as one thought from beginning to end and as thought. Dead., the only clive wearing diary of feeling alive were when Deborah visited him and 30.! Of their life together the Capacity of short-term memory is our general factual knowledge like. X27 ; s names and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement he tends to to... Also affected since it is hard to Lassus Festival to commemorate the composer 's Anniversary. The confusing present, only remembering seconds of time not like H.M. like...

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